BrakeTurnGo
Car Building Information => Client Projects & Tips – Muscle Cars => Topic started by: PJ Runnells on Feb 04, 2026, 04:36 PM
Been building a 1967 Pontiac firebird for the last 15 years and finally have it running and driving. Ron helped put the right parts together for a road /track car of my dreams. Speed tech, extreme front suspension rear torque arm with Watts link, 9 inch floater rear end, fuel cell, caged, holly dominator, race pack, smart wire Texas speed LS three Hughes performance 4l80e manual valve body.
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Those are GREAT build thread photos PJ. Thank you for posting!
Thanks, Ron. It's been fun. Have about 280 miles on it now saving up to get some scales to get it dialed in been reading the thread on that, will probably have questions at some point. Thanks again Ron dreams can come true
Quote from: PJ Runnells on Mar 01, 2026, 04:40 PMThanks, Ron. It's been fun. Have about 280 miles on it now saving up to get some scales to get it dialed in been reading the thread on that, will probably have questions at some point. Thanks again Ron dreams can come true
Thanks for the kind words. When you get the car ready to scale ... or on the scales ... reach out & let's discuss what we're seeing & what you want.
Quote from: PJ Runnells on Mar 01, 2026, 04:40 PMThanks, Ron. It's been fun. Have about 280 miles on it now saving up to get some scales to get it dialed in been reading the thread on that, will probably have questions at some point. Thanks again Ron dreams can come true
I'm about to buy my first set of scales too! Have been lucky enough to this point to have someone around me who has a set, but you know what they say about once you borrow it twice.
Idk what your plans are for alignment strategy, but I am trying to make it to where I can do it accurately by myself. Rolling the car on and off of a ramp setup to allow the suspension to settle isn't something I'll be able to do by myself. My first thought was slip plates under all 4 corners, or do the front only with the rear scale pads leveled to match the additional height of the scale pad. They're pricey and now that you have slip plates, what else can you use them for other than alignments...not much.
Second thought is hub stands. I've always wanted a set. So many uses! To do what we need, they need to able able to move freely while lowering the car back onto the scales after making a change. Hub stands vary in price, wildly. If its something you're interested in, look around. I found several options. The parts that are important to me are the ability to easily move for measurements. Being able to sweep caster is very important and seems to be something that not all of them look like they can do well. One I saw that looked to be on a nice set of rollers didn't include caster as something that could be measured.
I was looking last weekend and found an inexpensive set that might check all the boxes - they're a DIY, and not height adjustable, so calculations will have to be made while measuring ride height, but....they look sturdy and seem like they would move freely with minimal force. They have an option for casters or ball transfer bearings. I opted for the ball transfer bearings and they come in under $1k for all four corners. The next setup I like is around $1600. If I can get repeatable accuracy with a little effort I'm down for saving a few dollars. I'm waiting for all the component to arrive, if you're interested I can offer feedback once I get them in and assembled. DM me for a link if you'd like to look.
Thanks for the information. Didn't know anything about hub stands. This is all new learning for me. Will be looking into all kinds of new stuff. Have to learn a lot. I think I have a good base to start thanks to Ron.
Thanks PJ
Quote from: Ryan Kennedy on Mar 14, 2026, 01:53 PMIdk what your plans are for alignment strategy, but I am trying to make it to where I can do it accurately by myself. Rolling the car on and off of a ramp setup to allow the suspension to settle isn't something I'll be able to do by myself. My first thought was slip plates under all 4 corners, or do the front only with the rear scale pads leveled to match the additional height of the scale pad. They're pricey and now that you have slip plates, what else can you use them for other than alignments...not much.
Ryan, you called them "Slip Plates." We call them grease plates. We'd take some .040" aluminum (only because it was plentiful in our shop) & shear 4 16"x16" plates. Then we'd spread grease evenly & slap together 2 of the plates to make a grease sandwich.
If you have a relatively flat surface, you simply roll the front tires onto these grease plates. As you make changes, the grease plates allow the front tires to glide or slip as needed for zero bind. These are not needed in the rear.
As far as scaling & aligning the front end at the same time, we did this on either scale stands with roll off runners, or a scale platen. We uses the grease plates on the front scales. See images
(https://www.speedwaymotors.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcontent.speedwaymotors.com%2FProductImages%2F47572905_L1600_ec89dffd-9601-4a99-9eae-1c6f0c693286.jpg&w=1920&q=75)
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On the scale platen above, we added roll off runners in front of the front scales. That way we could roll the car forward & back. The grease plates always went under the front tires for alignment purposes. But some guys like to put them under the rear tires as well to ensure there is no tire bind messing with with your scale numbers.
Yay, some discussion!
Ron, making slip plates as you've described is something I've done before and it seemed to work well. The roll-offs and ramps are also an option. I was looking at cost and ability to use by yourself. Ramps aren't one I've found can be used by yourself. Had them at a Mazda shop I worked at and it was the best way. Only thing is, there's no amount of roll that can happen before you start rolling down to ground level and then need help getting the car back up onto the scales.
The levelers and roll-offs are the one I was considering before looking more into hub stands. In your opinion, is the foot or so you're able to roll back enough to unload the wheels? Levelers and roll-offs are still more expensive than what I'm trying with the hub stands, but you still have me with the cost of nearly nothing using greased slip plates. Longacre also has their billet levelers with rollers so the scales move with the tires. Hadn't seen those before. Cool but pricey.
The hub stands are kind of a multi-use item IMO - countless times have I wanted to have the car at an accurate ride height and be able to work or measure in the same space that the wheel is occupying. Just the way I'm going about it.
Quote from: Ryan Kennedy on Mar 19, 2026, 12:14 PMRamps aren't one I've found can be used by yourself.
Agreed. If one person was working on doing this, we'd use jacks to lift one side of the car, then put the two scale stands (with scales) under one side. Then the other. No ramps needed. Just don't let the car roll off the scale stands! LOL
We put thick aluminum stops on each end of the stands so that wouldn't happen, unless the car was pushed with power.
Quote from: Ryan Kennedy on Mar 19, 2026, 12:14 PMThe levelers and roll-offs are the one I was considering before looking more into hub stands. In your opinion, is the foot or so you're able to roll back enough to unload the wheels? Levelers and roll-offs are still more expensive than what I'm trying with the hub stands, but you still have me with the cost of nearly nothing using greased slip plates. Longacre also has their billet levelers with rollers so the scales move with the tires. Hadn't seen those before. Cool but pricey.
The hub stands are kind of a multi-use item IMO - countless times have I wanted to have the car at an accurate ride height and be able to work or measure in the same space that the wheel is occupying. Just the way I'm going about it.
I also like hub stands, but not the billet non-adjustable type. With those you can't change ride height (hub height). But I'm a big fan of the adjustable height versions. Allstar used to offer them quite affordably. See image. But they've been discontinued.
(https://www.circletracksupply.com/images/product/D/CTS%20Set%20Up%20Stand-5x5.jpg)
The Wehr Machine setup plates are off the hook great. They act as your hub stand & toe plate together ... plus they're adjustable for height & have rollers to ensure there is no tire or suspension bind. See image below. Website HERE (https://wehrsmachine.com/item/6014930-set-up-plate-for-5x5-pattern?srsltid=AfmBOopZz8_i7S87FRMn0t0xdJABDC4ztDstRvL4JCnxusrjbm2YFNnp). We sell Wehr & use a lot of their stuff. When we add a tool section to our catalogs, these will be in there. Not super cheap. $700 for 2 or $1400 for 4. (RSRT offers free shipping on this item)
(https://wehrsmachine.com/images/5aabf9a6-9385-11ee-bb7e-0242ac130002/jpg/set-up-plate-for-5x5-pattern/weh-wm472-5x5-1.jpg)
Where Allstar discontinuing their inexpensive version, you may want to build your own. Paco Motorsports sells 4 of the mounts for $200. Then you could make the adjustable part however you want. Website here. (https://pacomotorsports.com/collections/hubstands/products/retrofit-universal-hub-plates-for-ver2-3-4-hub-stands)
(https://pacomotorsports.com/cdn/shop/files/RCHP_Black.jpg?v=1764735306&width=1500)
Here (https://theturtlelab.com/products/wheel-hub-stands-for-diy-alignment?variant=39592195096662)is another "weld it yourself" option.
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I like the rollers, but frankly we'd need to modify the plate to allow for more camber.
My Race-Warrior customers with Centerlock hubs use these HERE (https://bbxracing.com/product/prohubstands/), with adapters.
(https://bbxracing.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/HUBstands-product-pro-1.jpg)
The green and black DIY set with rollers are the ones I'm trying. I too am concerned about the amount of camber that they can handle. The same company makes a few other things for E36 BMW. Assuming that's what they originally made them for, they usually run a lot of static camber. Have to see what they're capable of once they arrive! Didn't mean to highjack your thread, PJ!
Quote from: Ryan Kennedy on Mar 21, 2026, 01:24 PMThe green and black DIY set with rollers are the ones I'm trying. I too am concerned about the amount of camber that they can handle. The same company makes a few other things for E36 BMW. Assuming that's what they originally made them for, they usually run a lot of static camber. Have to see what they're capable of once they arrive! Didn't mean to highjack your thread, PJ!
I think you'll be able to open up the middle section & give the uprights more room to camber. Let us know after you get them done.
Hey Ron, quick brake question getting a little bit of bleed down and squishy pedal after a bit. Willwood master stoptech calipers. Should I be using a residual valve. And a quick question on the stoptech closure suggestions for pads